This page is a wiki. Please login or create an account to begin editing.


29 posts / 0 new
Last post
T-1000's picture
Offline
Joined: 2011 Sep 15
Posts:
T-1000:s latest baby

So, yesterday my latest baby arrived! A Power Macintosh G3 desktop. I haven't checked what clock frequency it is but I really think it is a 233 MHz. The hard drive was really really dead, but it didn't really matter to me as 4 GB would have been too small to me anyway. Replaced it with a 120 GB IDE-drive. But I think I have to find some more RAM, it only has 64 MiB installed, I want at least 256 MiB or rather 512 MiB. Anyone knows what cheap RAM:s does fit this machine, I know it has to be some kind of low profile type?

I paid 180 SEK for it, that's a bit short of $30. An Apple monitor and a computer table was included. Seems like a reasonable price... Tongue However, I had to pay almost $100 for the new hard drive, including freight charges.

Comments

bertyboy's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009 Jun 14
Posts:

Very nice. Shame about the hard drive, they're usually expensive 2nd hand too, but you can pick these up inside an older Mac for $40 or a PC for $2 - well 80GB if you're lucky, 120GB are very rare. I've bought a few 2nd hand PCs for this, giving me spare hard drives, ATA cables, RAM, optical and Zip drives.

PC66 is what it needs PC100 or PC133 will be fine. 3 DIMM slots, so you could easily and cheaply put 3 x 256MB PC100 or PC133 in there.

themacmeister's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009 Oct 26
Posts:

I got the same beast, but 266MHz with no RAM. I have a LOT of RAM that will fit inside this, but I believe it will all run at a very slow speed (100MHz?).

I have no keyboard/mouse with ADB, but I do have an old eMac KB/mouse, so will try a PCI USB adaptor, and see if that works... Still require Mac->PC video convertor, but may try a PCI graphics card (I believe I have a GeForce 2, that should work). I also have a 64MB TNT2 which might be worth a try?!?!

Anyways, I'll replace the 4GB HDD with a 40GB model, and see if that helps Smile

EDIT: GACK! You can get a 2TB SATA II HDD for $100!!!

bertyboy's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009 Jun 14
Posts:

Getting a 2TB SATA HDD for $100 is a sore point in NZ, it's at least $200 here, and with the floods in Thailand, merchants have used it as an excuse to up prices for Christmas.
Still, I don't really need the space, I have TB's to spare across multiple Macs and external drives.

But DVD-R media seems to be $1 per disc here, about 5x what I used to pay in the UK, so HDD comes out as the cheaper tertiary backup media (primary and secondary backups are still to internal HDD).

themacmeister's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009 Oct 26
Posts:

Haven't checked prices lately -- I know I need a new 640GB laptop SATA HDD, and I may faint when I hear what they're asking!

Offline
Joined: 2009 Apr 18
Posts:

Can check my 'memory box' in the basement. Might be something there. At least we´re sharing mail fees… Wink

MikeTomTom's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009 Dec 7
Posts:

@themacmeister:

...I have a LOT of RAM that will fit inside this, but I believe it will all run at a very slow speed (100MHz?).

This Mac shipped with PC 66 DIMMs, PC 100 are backwards compatible and some PC 133 RAM is too... but it will (if compatible) all run at PC 66 RAM speed (whatever that means).

I have no keyboard/mouse with ADB...

Check your snail mail P.O. box in (up to) a weeks time. I'm sending you an ADB keyboard and a mouse or two (I have heaps to spare at the mo.) Will post after the pub. hol. in a couple of days.

MikeTomTom's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009 Dec 7
Posts:

@T-1000: congrats on the new purchase. The pic you had (since gone) showed a zip drive, so thats an added extra that may be useful... Personally, what I like about the beige G3 is that its fast, can run OS X if needed (up to Jaguar without resorting to X-PostFacto) & still has a floppy drive and built in SCSI support - both of which is something I do find to be useful, still.

One thing to consider is not so much the CPU speed but more the Revision of the motherboard. If its a Rev B or C motherboard its good - Rev C is the best (supports up to 256MB RAM per RAM slot without issues), but if its a Rev A board then its limited to a single HD/CD drive per IDE slot (has no IDE Master/Slave support). - Boot up in Mac OS 8-9.x and run the System Profiler located under the Apple Menu. It will give you the Rev # - See this low end Mac page for further info (it names Rev A as Rev 1, so A here = 1, B = 2, & C = 3 for the revision numbers) ps. heavy ad serving there, sorry. Requires a lot of adblock.

T-1000's picture
Offline
Joined: 2011 Sep 15
Posts:

Okay, thanks. The backwards compatibility just means that the computer will run the memory bus at the 66 MHz frequency. I will see if I can find some cheap new or used memory sticks.

To SwedeBear: Det vore hemskt snällt om du kan se om du har minnen som passar. God fortsättning på det nya året!

MikeTomTom's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009 Dec 7
Posts:

@T-1000: Another point to consider about any RAM you get for this. Because its the desktop beige G3, you have to use "low profile" RAM, in order to fit it into the case. Make sure before you get any for it, that it will fit into the case (no more than 1.15" tall).

I actually swapped my 1st beige g3 desktop into an ATX tower case in order to take advantage of the "tall profile" RAM I had at the time. See this similar conversion, it was really easy to do, as the beige G3 is so compatible with the ATX design.

Offline
Joined: 2009 Apr 18
Posts:

@T-1000: (in English if there´s someone else in need) Got 3 X 128MB, 1 X 64MB and 1 X 32MB; all PC100. Got at least 4 X 32MB in same HW form as above but I guess they´re PC66. From this bunch there´s a lot 16 and 8MB. Also got some Apple ROMs and a cache stick from somewhere, amongst.
If needed I´ll provide pics.

themacmeister's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009 Oct 26
Posts:

@MikeTomTom --> You are the greatest!!!

I still have the video issue to solve, the graphics cards I thought I had are all AGP. If this machine has AGP, I am safe... otherwise, I am in a bit of a pickle, and will have to source a PCI NVIDIA/Radeon graphics card, or a Mac->PC video adaptor (the adaptor I have is PC->Mac only) Sad

Also, I have a Mac cache RAM simm, removed (I believe) from a pizza box PowerMac 601 machine.

MikeTomTom's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009 Dec 7
Posts:

@themacmeister: Shock
If you mean a vid card for a beige G3, you'll need a PCI card not AGP. The ATI Rage Pro 128 PCI cards from the later beige towers, the b/w G3's & non AGP G4 towers work well in the beige. That card won't support a 16x9 aspect display tho', if that could be an issue for you, though millions of colours at up to 1600x1200 is not a problem and openGL support is good too. You can also up the onboard video to 6MB, but a PCI card really is the only way to decent graphics on this G3.

That cache simm, if pulled from a 601 will likely only be useful for a similar CPU'd Mac. Sad to say.

Also. Do check your snail-mail post box this week. I posted a little something your way yesterday so it may get down there by the end of the week Wink

T-1000's picture
Offline
Joined: 2011 Sep 15
Posts:

Hi again SwedeBear. I'm interested in acquiring all three of your 128 MiB sticks. Do you know if they are low profile or not? We can continue this discussion over e-mail.

themacmeister's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009 Oct 26
Posts:

@MikeTomTom

Got the parcel, many thanks (haven't opened it yet)

EDIT: Opened it -- WOW. It's a full 104 key monster, and a really nice mouse. Many thanks indeed. I am now trawling eBay for a PC graphics card I can flash to Mac (solving the monitor issue at the same time). I believe I used a PC Radeon before, and it worked, but I will not be taking any chances with this next graphics card. Also, I have no PCI graphics card in my parts arsenal anymore either, so this will be well received.

MikeTomTom's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009 Dec 7
Posts:

@themacmeister: Glad it got to you in one piece. I hope it comes in use for you.

My advice is not to attempt flashing if you can avoid it. I've tried on a couple of PC cards and both ended in tears Sad
Not that I'm some kind of PC card flash to Mac expert.

A nice card for the beige G3 is the Rage Pro 128 PCI card. You can get one sent down your way from Melbourne. I also got one for my G3 from this seller:

Video card: Apple PCI ATI Rage 128 16Mb 661-2208
Used
Time left: 20d 03h (25 Jan, 201223:39:40 AEDST)
Quantity: 1
7 available
Price: AU $8.95
Postage: AU $7.95 Standard Postage
applebits-vic-au

Also has a "Make an offer" on asking price.
Only caveat is it doesn't support wide screen 16:9 displays, only 4x3 ratios up to 1600x1200 at millions of colours. OK if you have an older CRT or LCD display at hand.

Offline
Joined: 2009 Dec 19
Posts:

@T-1000: Regarding the PCI video card for your G3, unless you want to run an old mac monitor, don't get a video card with the old mac port (2 rows – DA-15, I believe it's called). Get yourself a mac PCI card with VGA and DVI. VGA will save you the use of an adaptor and DVI is just so nice.
I bought recently myself a mac PCI ATi Radeon Pro 9350 on eBay. I have this running a 1600x1200 LCD monitor and it is wonderfully sharp. Do look around for other cards with DVI that run on mac pre-OS X. Others on the list may be able to give you their recommendations.

bertyboy's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009 Jun 14
Posts:

Keeping my eyes open for a PCI Graphics G4 on TradeMe here, came with VGA only but if it's only a few bucks, it may be suitable.

I'm also on the lookout for a B&W G3, but if I got one I'd be keeping hold of the video card (and the rest of the Mac). These fetch silly prices just now.

themacmeister's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009 Oct 26
Posts:

Yeah, I don't have Mac monitor, so I need VGA or DVI. I found the adaptor on eBay for about $10 + $10 postage (grrrr). This machine has Rage Pro inside I believe.

MikeTomTom's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009 Dec 7
Posts:

The beige G3 has on board a 2MB Rage Pro chip (various, depending on manu. year) and it really sucks badly. It can be expanded to 6MB with an additional 4MB SO-DIMM but it still is a dog.

The only thing to do is to get a PCI card into the box if you can. See the applebits link above (post #16)

T-1000's picture
Offline
Joined: 2011 Sep 15
Posts:

Well, obviously the onboard graphics in this beast sucks badly. However, I will probably mostly run the Classic Mac OS on it and I will not spend time and money searching for a PCI graphics card and a new display. The monitor I got with it seems to fit perfectly! Smile

I've heard that Mac OS X's graphics totally kills this machine. I would like to check out the Mac OS X Public Beta, anyone knows where it is to be found?

Also, I found an old issue of the Swedish Mac Magazine, with a review of all the first G3 models. This one gets 94%, with a note that with the Zip drive, you get unlimited storage space... Tongue

MadMac's picture
Offline
Joined: 2010 Mar 20
Posts:

you know what?
it can use pc-100 ram modules (some time ago, before was selled, i set some pair of brand new 128mb modules)... all you have to do is to carefully cut the metal grid of the fan...
look...
[img=http://bayimg.com/aAlIfaAdm]

Offline
Joined: 2009 Apr 18
Posts:

I would like to check out the Mac OS X Public Beta, anyone knows where it is to be found?

Oww, try something after the official release. Tried it on my 'new' AGP G4 and it went like molasses… If you insist on it I´ll have a look in the basement. To it´s advantage the 'official' Beta was said to still support internal floppy drives. Not that I could try it out then. Tongue

themacmeister's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009 Oct 26
Posts:

@T-1000, I have(?) a copy of OSX 10.0.1, which I believe is the public beta. Unfortunately, NO 3rd party software will run on it, and it is constantly bringing up the "beachball of doom". More of a tech demo than an OS. Absolutely unusable for anything. Best to try and find 10.1, which is where OSX began to improve. 10.2 should guarantee a lot of software being available...

You can install Tiger+ on this machine with X-Post Facto (with caveats)

themacmeister's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009 Oct 26
Posts:

@MadMac -- That is a wonderful hack, I will probably need that for my 133MHz RAM modules too (assuming they are backward compatible). Just found two IBM 128MB modules to try. I have more RAM of this pin count than I can add up. I also have that cache/ram chip, which may be the 4MB upgrade slot for the ATI Rage graphics.

All I need to do first is get it running, and get an OS installed (9.2.2). 256MB is overkill for this, and I will eventually source a graphics card. I assume this uses standard ATA IDE Hard Drives right? I don't have SCSI disks anymore.

MadMac's picture
Offline
Joined: 2010 Mar 20
Posts:

macmeister, that was the only way to set up the max of 768 Mb of RAM for this machine.
Three modern ram modules of 256 MB PC-100 or PC-133.
It doesn´t seems to recognise pc-100 or 133 ram modules of 512 MB.
The maximum VRAM (video memory) is 6 Mb with the 4mb upgrade (hard to find where i live).

And yes, it uses ATA IDE conectors, which means that you can add another hard drive if you remove the ZIP drive and use its port and plastic carrier support for another drive. Wink
I used to have a 40 GB hard disk as a main drive, to install MacOS X all i have to do was a disk partition and everthing was just fine... really cool. (the instructions were at the macosx install disk)
I set up this machine to MacOS X 10.1.15, but if you have enough ram you can reach untill MacOSX 10.2.6, that s the limit for this baby.
Upgradin to macos x was a great experience, ironic that the cool people who buys mine... they only want the machine for classic environment and its floppy drive and to use QuarkXpress 4! (my original intentions when i buy this one from a musician, weird isnt it?Smile)

bertyboy's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009 Jun 14
Posts:

I'm sure that I put up an image of the original 10.0 install CD and the Developer Tools CD that went with it, probably MegaUpload. I've also got the original 10.1 install CD. Let me know if you want to try.

themacmeister's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009 Oct 26
Posts:

I bought the adaptor off eBay, just so I can get video showing, and I'll take it from there.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Switchable-Mac-Monitor-Adapter-Use-PC-Monitor...

I have a couple of 40GB hard drives, and a faulty(?) 80GB one. I think 80GB total should do what I need, especially when my iBook G3 has only 20GB and has everything I need installed Smile

Protocol 7's picture
Offline
Joined: 2010 Aug 7
Posts:

I didn't think the Public Beta was that hard to find. I'll rip mine and create a topic for it once it's uploaded.