PROJECT: Looking for Mac ROMs

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2010, September 13 - 4:41am

Balrog

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PROJECT: Looking for Mac ROMs

So we're looking for ROMs that haven't been dumped. This is to help improve our understanding of Mac hardware, as well as emulation.

A chart of known ROMs is available here: Chart at Google Docs. We are looking for any ROMs that we don't have a copy of (these are marked as yellow). Also, ROMs which don't exist in the list (continue reading to find out how to determine this) are helpful, too.

To dump the ROMs, please use the CopyROM utility within this zipped disk image. (Don't use the .144 file.) Before dumping the ROM, CopyROM will tell you the ROM checksum, which then can be compared to the chart.

Also, even if the ROMs are dumped, the letters on the actual ROM chips inside the computer (on the labels on these chips, if there are any) are useful as well. And even if you think they're dumped, please run CopyROM anyway to be sure.

Please also download TattleTech from http://archive.info-mac.org/cfg/tattletech-258.hqx (newer versions don't work too well, and crash older Macs), and generate a report including all the Hardware info, as well as Gestalts and Parameter RAM. Use "Write Standard Rpts to Text File" for this to work.

Thanks!

http://www.mediafire.com/?oc9p2udg33opyyx — Mac rom set v0.98c, includes Pippin ROMs

Last Updated: 2011-08-21
EDIT: we're also looking for Mac OS ROM files that are not in the list. Thanks!
Also useful are Egret/CUDA ROM dumps for machines that have them. These are separate ROMs!
User this utility to dump the Egret or CUDA ROM: http://minivmac.sourceforge.net/extras/egretrom.html

Comments

2010, September 13 - 4:54am

MikeTomTom

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Where do you want them uploaded to?

2010, September 13 - 4:56am

Balrog

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@Mike Garden:

Wherever, an upload service (rapidshare, megaupload, mediafire, etc) is fine.

2010, September 13 - 5:02am

MikeTomTom

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I have ROMs from my "Classic II", "PowerBook 180", "Centris 660AV" and "Quadra 650". The Q 650 ROM is very common, so you likely won't need mine. The "C 660AV" is unusable in any emulator AFAIK (a 2 MB ROM). I didn't take note of the letters/numbers on the chips, sorry.

2010, September 13 - 5:10am

Balrog

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The only way you can be sure it's "very common" is if the checksum (which is the same as the first eight hexadecimal characters, viewable with a hex editor) matches the checksum in the list. There may have been multiple revisions of the Q650 ROM.

Letters/numbers on the chips, while useful, are not required.

The purpose is to improve emulation and figure out how the hardware works, so the fact that the ROM is unusable isn't an issue.

2010, September 13 - 10:58am

Protocol 7

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I tried to dump the rom in my 5400 once but all I got was junk every time. Even with extensions off and other rom dumping tools.

And here's a couple of the unknown checksums for the Pippin roms:

1.2: 3E10E14C
1.3: 3E6B3EE4

Source: http://bit.ly/cFaNtu

2010, September 13 - 1:36pm

Vitoarc

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I've just acquired a PPC 7200 ROM but I don't know if it's been dumped or not nor what version it is. Perhaps it was found in the same place as the one listed in your chart.

I've tried copying the ROM from my PPC 7100 but neither CopyROM nor GetROM worked for me. I'd like to find a way to get it and I'd be glad to upload once I do.

2010, September 13 - 2:58pm

Balrog

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@Vitoarc, Protocol 7:
What are the error messages? Are the copy utilities provided sufficient RAM (in get info)?

Open a ROM file in a hex editor and look at the first eight hex characters to find its checksum. Then compare this to the list.

2010, September 13 - 3:41pm

Vitoarc

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OK it looks like one you don't have, so here it is:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=WU314QJH

It looks like your 95CD923D ROM may in fact be for a 7200 as well.

Will the ROMS listed in the file have links to dl at some point?

2010, September 13 - 3:52pm

#10

Balrog

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@Vitoarc:

says it's "unavailable" ... as for the latter, I'm not sure, going to find out

EDIT: Yes, of course.

2010, September 13 - 4:10pm

#11

Vitoarc

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It looks like you don't have this one either:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=SW0IL5B6

By the way, your version of CopyROM did the trick. My dl from another site was apparently incomplete.

[EDIT] It should be available now... it was parsing I suppose...

2010, September 13 - 4:53pm

#12

Protocol 7

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I don't get any error messages. I just get 4MB of random junk in the file. Nothing remotely resembling a valid rom. I've disabled virtual memory and booted with extensions off but the outcome is always the same. The checksum reported by CopyROM is 6F5724C0 but this doesn't appear at the start of any of the ROM dump attempts I've made.

2010, September 13 - 4:59pm

#13

Balrog

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@Protocol 7:

Are you using CopyROM from the image I linked? That's the only one that would work right.

Is the "junk" the same every time, or does it change from dump to dump? If it's the same, please upload it somewhere anyway, we'd have to look at it.

You could also hit Cmd-Power (programmer's switch interrupt) and type "DM 0" and read the front of the ROM to see what's going on. The first few characters would be the checksum. To exit the ROM monitor box, type "G ".

EDIT: Also, some dumps have junk at the front. If the dump is consistent (doesn't change each time), or at least most of it is consistent, please upload.

2010, September 13 - 5:06pm

#14

Balrog

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http://www.megaupload.com/?d=0LIN2T2X -- current Mac rom set
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=EN3WYP74 -- Bandai Pippin ROM (this one is in parts which would need to be interleaved)

2010, September 13 - 5:07pm

#15

Protocol 7

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Yep I'm using that one. When I run it, it takes maybe a minute or so to save out the ROM file. The dumps are different every time.

Cmd+Power and DM 0 gives me FFC10000 for the first few characters.

2010, September 13 - 5:11pm

#16

Balrog

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@Protocol 7:

Can you take four dumps, archive them together, and upload? There may still be useful information.

Thanks!

2010, September 13 - 5:42pm

#17

Protocol 7

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Here you go. I doubt you'll get anything useful out of them though. It's a mystery why I can't dump the ROM in this Performa.

http://sharebee.com/f4d0e6f8

Have you any idea how to interleave that split Pippin ROM?

Here's the pre-release KINKA ROM for it: http://sharebee.com/8423368a

It's the bottom screenshot on that page I linked earlier (checksum 2BF65931). More details can be found here: http://bit.ly/bTTzxn

2010, September 13 - 5:52pm

#18

Balrog

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@Protocol 7:

I'll attempt to find out. Do you have any other Pippin stuff? If so, please upload!

Those "junk" files seem to be partial RAM dumps. Ugh.

2010, September 13 - 6:24pm

#19

Protocol 7

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As far as ROMs go, I just have that one and the split one. Never could figure out how to get it into one valid file.

I've a bunch of games (images, I haven't got a real Pippin) but they're mostly big, in Japanese, and can be found easily online. Oh, and crap.

2010, September 13 - 8:23pm

#20

Balrog

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"crap" like what?

2010, September 13 - 8:35pm

#21

Vitoarc

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"crap" like what?

Can you take four dumps...

Just a guess...

2010, September 13 - 8:51pm

#22

Balrog

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That's due to a bug in the ROM dumper.

Can anyone with a Mac dump their ROMs, and check them against the list? We need the ROMs that are marked yellow or red. They will be added to the archive.

2010, September 13 - 8:59pm

#23

Protocol 7

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Crap like not worth playing

Honestly there isn't a single good Pippin-exclusive title. There's a reason it flopped so badly. Maybe some of the Gundam games are good if you understand Japanese, but the rest... ugh. To be fair, a lot are edutainment so I'm not exactly the target audience.

For me, the only good thing to come out of the Pippin was the AppleJack controller. They rock.

2010, September 14 - 12:50pm

#24

MCP

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Take a look here and see if there's anything of use--

http://www.mediafire.com/?dh1zacxowam7g

http://sites.google.com/site/oldmacarchive/roms

2010, September 14 - 3:30pm

#25

IIGS_User

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PB190cs.ROM.sit (1.09 MB - link removed)
PowerBook 190cs Checksum = 4D27039C

Pismo.ROM.sit (2.95 MB - link removed)
PowerBook G3 Pismo Checksum = ECC44A65

2010, September 14 - 3:43pm

(Reply to #24) #26

Mitrokhin

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We may also have some stuff you can use on -~ PaNdOrA ~- a Wired 1.3.4 Server. Get the client here:
http://zankasoftware.com/dist/wiredclient-latest.zip and check the tracker for the address.

2010, September 14 - 6:51pm

#27

Balrog

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@IIgs_User:

Isn't the Pismo a "New World" Mac that uses the ROM from the "Mac OS ROM" file in the system folder?

Thanks, Mitrokhin!

2010, September 14 - 7:04pm

#28

IIGS_User

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Isn't the Pismo a "New World" Mac that uses the ROM from the "Mac OS ROM" file in the system folder?

I don't know for sure, but probably you're right.

2010, September 15 - 1:51am

#29

sheepmyshaver123

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Mitrokhin, I don't have the access of Pandora because Wired 1.3.4 requires the Mac OS X system, me running in Windows system and my computer is not suitable to run Mac OS X on PearPC or VMWare Workstation. Can you list of ROMs are available?

2010, September 15 - 1:53am

#30

Balrog

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@sheepmyshaver123:

Check out qwired.

2010, September 15 - 2:34am

#31

sheepmyshaver123

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And what is the address of the Pandora?

2010, September 15 - 3:16am

#32

Balrog

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@Protocol 7:

Can you try the various utilities within http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2784115/%20ROM%20Tools.zip ? The ROM must be 4MB though, if it's 3MB then it's incomplete.

2010, September 15 - 2:38pm

#33

Protocol 7

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According to AutoCopyROM my ROM is 3MB and it quits with an error when it tries to save it to disk. It also reports the checksum as 6F5724C0. ROMmie gave me this: http://bit.ly/cmFmoO

I tried two dumps with RomCopy. With and without extensions. Both are different and neither have the correct checksum. They're also 3MB each. So it looks like I just can't do it with this Mac.

2010, September 15 - 3:38pm

(Reply to #22) #34

MikeTomTom

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@balrog:

We need the ROMs that are marked yellow or red. They will be added to the archive.

Here's 2 of mine that don't seem to be in your have list: PowerBook 180 and Centris 660AV The C-660AV is a 2 MB ROM, so could be of interest.

2010, September 20 - 3:01am

#35

Balrog

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@IIGS_User:

Can you upload the Mac OS ROM file from the System Folder on the Pismo? Make sure you stuff it. This one seems unusual.

Thanks!

2010, September 20 - 11:46am

#36

IIGS_User

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Yes, I'll give it a try!

2010, September 20 - 7:04pm

#37

nmz502

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what would a beige g3 be considered? a G3 v1?

2010, September 20 - 7:52pm

#38

Northcott

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@nmz502: If the checksum is not the same as the one already in the set (it looks like only version 3 that's missing at this point).

IIRC, any new world Mac uses the software "Mac OS ROM" file in it's system folder to emulate the toolbox found in the ROM of old world Macs; the ROM file is specific to the OS version being used (with a few updates especially for later unClassicked systems). Just a side note.

2010, September 20 - 8:25pm

#39

soudesune

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Hi Balrog,

I have a IIfx that has been gathering dust for a while now. Once I find a nubus video card for it and if I can get it to boot with a zip-drive, I'll try and make a dump for you.

2010, September 20 - 8:43pm

#40

Balrog

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@nmz502:
It could be v1, v2, or v3. Beige G3s with a v1 ROM have buggy IDE support and don't work well (or at all?) with OS X. We have a v3 ROM, it's just waiting to be installed in a G3 and dumped.

@Northcott:

The Mac OS ROM file can be unpacked into a "standard" ROM. There's code for this in SheepShaver. However, these ROMs also have a version number, and we need ones which we don't have.

2010, September 21 - 4:25pm

(Reply to #35) #41

IIGS_User

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@IIGS_User:

Can you upload the Mac OS ROM file from the System Folder on the Pismo? Make sure you stuff it.

Mac_OS_ROM.sit (2.2 MB - link removed)

2010, October 4 - 10:49pm

#42

max1zzz

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i have a pm 8600 but it isn't listed in the list dose it have the same rom as the 8500 or something

2010, October 5 - 2:42am

#43

Balrog

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@max1zzz:

As far as we can tell, it may have a different ROM. Can you try dumping it with CopyROM?
Thanks!

2010, October 8 - 9:37pm

#44

macgeek417

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You seem to only have 1 thing listed for the PowerExpress. I have several ROM files that I found on the 'net at one point:

ROM SIMM dump
OF 2.0a9 flash dumps
OF 2.3 flash dumps

Also, in case this makes any differance, IIRC the PEX's ROM SIMM (the 3MB ROM you have) is pretty much the same as the New World Mac's Mac OS ROM file.

I can upload the other 4 files you seem to be missing if wanted. (they need to be interleaved into 1 file - there are 2 flash chips, and 2 versions of each.)

2010, October 8 - 9:48pm

#45

Balrog

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We have the .zip which was linked from 68kmla.org. The problem with this 3MB DIMM is that it doesn't verify checksum. We can tell that one chip out of the four on the DIMM didn't dump properly.

From what we can tell, the first 3MB was quite static and the last 1MB kept changing stuff, like drivers. That's why the last 1MB is not checksummed.

Also, one reason the PEX machines may be so unstable is because the ROM chips are very lousy. Probably burning the ROMs onto better quality chips would help.

Still, go ahead and upload.

BTW this isn't the latest ROM set. We have IIfx, and Mac II first version is on its way.
If you're wondering what we're using them for, it's to improve emulation and to help us understand how Mac OS works.

2010, October 9 - 1:00am

#46

macgeek417

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Yeah, at one point I was trying to accumulate a complete 68k romset - I did't do as good of a job as you seem to be doing though =P

So that is partially corrupt? Maybe it was dumped at too high of a speed or something...

EDIT: Looks like mine has the same checksum as your's. Should I still upload it? I am missing the interleaved flash chip ones though - only the untouched ones are in my collection.

2010, October 9 - 1:05am

#47

macgeek417

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Hm, looks like this is listed as missing...
http://www.box.net/macgeek417/1/40189408/415255506
(IIvx)

2010, October 9 - 2:23am

#48

Balrog

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@macgeek417:

can you PM me on IRC?

EDIT: Thanks for that ROM! We were looking for it!

EDIT 2: wrong. I ran a checksum and it's actually 4957EB49.

2010, October 9 - 2:29am

#49

Balrog

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I'd like to discuss that 1MB "end part" of the PEX ROM. There are two possibilities with the main (3MB) ROM:
1. bad dump
2. Apple patched the ROM and disabled the checksum test.

I find (2.) unlikely because we know that only a single chip was dumped improperly. the three others are correct. And the chips are interleaved, not sequential.

2010, October 9 - 2:49am

#50

Balrog

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An easy way to determine which ROM you have is looking at the first few bytes in a hex editor. Doesn't verify the ROM though.

2010, October 9 - 3:50am

(Reply to #48) #51

macgeek417

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hm, IIRC I got that from a hex editor...

What is the info for IRC? I'll add it to Xchat.