Newbie questions - many of (edited subject)

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2012, February 6 - 5:14pm

AdeV

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Newbie questions - many of (edited subject)

Hi gentle users of mac garden...

A million years ago, I used Mac LCs (LC II IIRC) at Staffordshire Polytechnic (or University as it became). Somehow, through the years, I managed to retain a disk full of student "work".

I just acquired a Mac Quadra from "that" auction site, which has kindled fond memories - but better still, the 20-year-old disk _still works_! So, figuring to have a look at what I was doing all those years ago, I decided to download ClarisWorks. And here's where it all went pear-shaped:

1) I was using the same floppy to copy each .image file over to the Mac (I can't make it talk to my network). i.e. copy image file to disk on PC; transfer to mac, copy off; take back to PC, format disk & copy another image, take back to Mac and - bam, it asks me to install the original disk! But I can't, I formatted it... Is there a hotkey to clear that request? Or do I need to do a hard reboot?

2) I'm not quite sure how to get diskcopy 4.2 onto the mac & installed, any instructions would be gratefully received...

Please bear in mind, I am a total Mac numpty - I haven't used one for nigh on 19 years, and I've long forgotten how.... but I am competent on a PC both windows & DOS.

Thanks in advance!

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2012, February 7 - 12:18am

MikeTomTom

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@AdeV: Nice to get an actual Quadra to play with. Some questions about it.
Which Quadra model is it?
Does it have a CD drive?
What version of Mac OS is it running?

I ask because a working CD drive would allow file transfers more easily. Also, moving raw .image files from a PC to Mac is "dangerous" as Mac files carry some data in a Resource fork which gets stripped off in the transfer. It pays to move Mac files across a network or PC system archived in some safe form before expanding them on the Mac you intend to use the software on.

If your Quadra does have a CD drive, download the System Software 7.1.2 install set located on this page. Scroll down the page to the link that begins "Temporary Download" - this DL's a zipped .ISO of the system install CD. It may not be suitable as a System install for your Quadra model but it has an installable ClarisWorks 2.1 on it which is likely suitable for your 20 years old documents (there is also a copy of Disk Copy 4.2 on it). It is also burnable on your PC. Use a software such as ImgBurn or some burning software that will burn any .ISO, then you will have a CD you can use on your Quadra (hoping here, that your Quadra has a working CD drive).

HTH

2012, February 7 - 11:35am

AdeV

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Hi - unfortunately, no CD ROM, only a floppy The machine is a Quadra 605; I'm not sat near it just now so I can't tell you how much memory it has, etc. It does have an ethernet card & TCP/IP installed, but for reasons best known to itself it won't get an IP address. Possibly I have my router setting incorrect; however, the main thing is I'm stuck on the "Insert floppy" screen which is asking for a floppy I formatted.... can I get out of that safely or should I just power off/on?

ETA: I think it's running macOS 6.something, I can check once I'm out of the insert disk dialog...

Cheers!
Ade.

2012, February 7 - 12:13pm

(Reply to #3) #4

MikeTomTom

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Is there no "cancel" button in that dialog screen? You may need to force a reboot.

A Quadra 605 shipped with System 7.1 and required System Enabler 065 as well, to boot (until upgrading to SSW 7.5 and later). So it won't be running any version of System 6.

A "safe" hard reboot is hold the "Control & Command" keys down and press the "Startup/Shutdown" button on the keyboard. Failing that, hold the power on button down for several seconds, that should shut it down.

Before trying to install software onto this Mac, perhaps you should obtain a good copy of "Disk Tools" a bootable floppy disk which has a couple of basic diagnostic tools "Disk First Aid" & "Drive Setup". Run Disk First Aid to check the health of your HD.

Do you have a PC with a floppy disk drive? If so, you can write to Mac floppies using HFVExplorer (1.4 MB media only). If you don't have a Disk Tools floppy this may be a way to go, but if you don't have access to a 7.1 floppy image with enabler 065, then you will need a floppy image of the 7.5 Disk Tools at a minimum for this.

2012, February 10 - 8:22pm

AdeV

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Hi Mike,

Thanks again - I'm now in front of the Quadra (technically true - it's behind me as I type this ), and the ctrl+apple+power button did the trick, albeit it whinged at me when it rebooted. There was no cancel button on the dialog, next one I see I'll take a photo.

The system is running macOS 7.6, so you're spot on there.

I've managed to get it talking to the network (it didn't like my Gigabit switch, which is fair enough), and I've enabled Appletalk on a Win2k3 server... just need to figure out filesharing now and I should be hot to trot.

I don't have any floppies at all with the system - just whatever's on the HD (not much - some CD rom tools which would suggest that an external CD has been used?).

Unfortunately, I put the old disk back in the drive today for another try, and it appears to be erased (the disk shows up as 40k used, no files present); I should have copied the files over while it was in the first time I seem to recall having that happen a couple of times on "live" floppies, back in the early '90s when I was using them for real. Ah well, maybe one of the disk tools will help me recover it?

2012, February 10 - 9:25pm

AdeV

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OK, I've got file sharing working (woo!), so now I can get files onto my Mac.

~~Catch-22: I can download the .sit files but I can't expand them!~~

~~I downloaded the "Installable Stuffit Expander", but the Mac won't recognise either the zip of hfv files as something it can deal with....~~

~~SOS!~~

~~I tried right-clicking too~~

~~Any help for this Mac numpty would be much appreciated.~~

OK, ignore the numpty, I just did what Mike suggested above.... all up & running now

2012, February 10 - 10:02pm

24bit

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PCMacLan was a well done Mac fileserver for W2K or XP.
For your floppy SUM may be worth a shot.

2012, February 11 - 10:51am

(Reply to #6) #8

MikeTomTom

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Good to hear networking is up and running too. If you have enough room on that hard drive you could also DL Mac CD images to the PC and transfer the image to the Mac. You could then mount the images using the excellent free "Virtual DVD-ROM/CD Utility" even tho' you don't have a CD drive in the 605.

Does depend on having a spare 650MB+ to spare but if you have it will give you access to CD archives too.

2012, February 11 - 9:25pm

AdeV

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Mike - sadly, I only have about 70MB _total_ space on the hard disk! No Mac-based CD images for me!

It's not a big deal, I'm not looking to use my Mac daily, or intensively - it's just a bit of retro youth-reliving... so long as it runs Mac bzone (a game I recall was installed on the Staffs Uni computers - or was doing the rounds at least) it'll do for me

24bit - thanks for the heads up. I've downloaded and unstuffed the SUM-II images, but neither DiskCopy 4.2 nor 6.3.3 will recognise them? According to the machine they are SimpleText files, and hence DC4.2 refuses to even try to open them. 6.3.3 will try if you drag/drop the file, but claims it has no recognisable file type... Any ideas? I unstuffed using stuffit 5.5 BTW.

2012, February 11 - 10:01pm

#10

24bit

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Guess I could package the SUM files in some folder, does this work for you?
http://min.us/mUuwi4K8N

2012, February 12 - 2:35am

(Reply to #9) #11

MikeTomTom

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@AdeV:

Mike - sadly, I only have about 70MB _total_ space on the hard disk! No Mac-based CD images for me!

Now that is a limitation that may come back to bite you, just wait and see

Here's a suggestion (only) thats not too implausible. Install the Basilisk II emulator onto your PC. I recommend the older "Build 142" of Basilisk for this too, obtained via the "Basilisk II for Windows build 142 (a much older version from 2001)" link on this E-Maculation site page.

Build 142 has full TCP/IP support which means you can set a unique IP address for the emulator and you can run an AppleTalk over ethernet connection between your actual Q605 and the emulated Mac without the host PC seeing either (direct Mac to Mac).
Build 142 does not require the addition of GTK+2 Runtime libs, necessary on Windows for later "JIT" builds of Basilisk II (and SheepShaver) for the emulator's GUI.
You can create drive files of up to 2GB each for the emulator. Ideal for mounting large image files (just to get to that stored 10kb file you want to use on the Q605). You can create and mount as many drive files as you wish within the limits of your host OS's drive capacity.
Ditto for mountable media, you can mount Mac CDs and access their data via the emulator.
If your PC has a floppy drive you can format and write to 1.4MB Mac floppies via the emulated Mac.
You can take the ROM dump of your Q605's ROM and legally use it as the required ROM file on the emulator - How many BII emulator owners can claim that privilege?
Build 142 has the necessary ROM extraction software included.
Build 142 lets you set the emulator up as a Quadra 605 (as well as several other Mac models) so it would look and feel similar to your actual Quadra (only more responsive).

Caveat: The BII ethernet drivers may be broken on Win OS's later than XP. (Unsure) as I'm still on XP here where they work fine.

2012, February 18 - 9:33pm

(Reply to #10) #12

AdeV

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24bit - that worked perfectly, thanks! SUM recovered at least some files from the disk... turns out they were mostly discussing the wreckage that was my final year major project Happy days...

2012, February 18 - 9:36pm

#13

AdeV

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Mike - I may well do some of that some day.... not just yet though... I've got sharing working on my local LAN now, and I've got hardly any Mac software anyway...

Now, all I need to do is get B.zone working.... it moans about needing a 68020 + FPU (I'm sure the Quadra has those things? Or maybe it's a 68040...

2012, February 18 - 11:21pm

(Reply to #13) #14

MikeTomTom

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The 68020 part it asks for isn't so important here (its asking for an '020 or better CPU), its the FPU bit thats the real problem for you and this game. The Quadra 605 shipped with a 68LC040 CPU, this chip was a cheaper version of the 68040 CPU and the "LC" part in the chip name means it does not have an FPU (which made it cheaper to produce).

To get around this short coming you can try installing the Software FPU control panel. This software can trick programs requiring an FPU to install and run anyway on 68k Macs lacking an FPU. YMMV.

2012, February 19 - 3:43pm

#15

AdeV

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Thanks Mike, happy days again All working now. SUM recovered my files, B.zone works - all's right with the world.

Thanks for all your help guys.